LttP: Just finished TLoU2. The game is amazing and I don't get the controversy at all (obviously, open spoilers)

[genjiZERO]

Finished it minutes ago. The whole things was totally enthralling. I have never played another game that felt so bloodlusty. The gameplay was really compelling. All of the weapons had their uses, and I liked how I needed to strategically think about which ones to use, and when. Ellie and Abby both played relatively differently. Gameplay-wise the only thing that I think could have used some improvement is that the melee fighting was a little cumbersome. Loved the story too.

But you know, the game's "controversial", so here's where I address the ones I've just read about.




They kill Joel

Eh, this isn't a very good criticism. Joel's death is the linchpin to the whole story. It's a good use of the, "gatekeeper dies" trope. It's totally meaningful, and completely makes sense within a world where there was a zombie apocalypse. Sucks that he died was violently murdered, but when you go on a killing spree on in a hospital them's the breaks.

Side note about Joel's killing spree. I'm not saying he was totally justified morally, but - let me tell you as a scientist - Abby's dad is a fucking hack. It makes no sense at all that there's something in Ellie's brain that can lead to a vaccination and that they have to kill her to get at her. Furthermore, the idea that he's qualified to do vaccine research or even has the facilities and resources to do it is absurd. This is something I wish they'd actually have brought up in order to add more moral grey to both Joel and Abby.

People hate Abby because she killed Joel and they can't get over it

Yeah, you're supposed to. She goes out of her way to bring vigilante justice to a guy who was just trying to protect his surrogate daughter. Personally though, by the end I was totally rooting for her. Ellie, got a fuck ton of revenge in, and should have just left it drop (I was shocked that wasn't the end of the game by the way). Also, again, it's the zombie apocalypse - it happens.

People hate the ending because Ellie doesn't kill Abby

I'm either way on this one. On the one had, had they have had Ellie kill her, well again, you reap what you sow and cycle of violence and all that. On the other I'm personally glad that she did because it was clear to me that - all things considered - she didn't deserve to be killed by Ellie, and had Ellie killed her, then Lev would have had a justification for killing Ellie.

People hate Abby because she's hella muscular

Females with high testosterone levels is pretty common. Coupled with living through a war-like setting and it's not at all unrealistic.

The trans community is upset about issues surrounding Lev

I actually had no idea that Lev was supposed to have a female sex. I had interpreted the character as having a male sex the whole time. Sure other Scars call him "Lilly" and there's the line about being a "wife", but I had interpreted that as the Scars as having perverse cultural practices not as implying that Lev was transgender. There's also the fact that he has a boy's body and importantly voice.

So two things:

A) if ND had intended the character to be trans they probably should have put more research into how a trans male child would actually be. There's also a sub-issue of using the character's "Death Name", but this seems overly critical because there really wouldn't be any other way to clue the player into the idea that Lev is trans.

B) My interpretation is correct and there is no issue.

A lot of the foraging and trekking bogs down the plot

Yes, I agree that it does. But I personally enjoyed it. It added realism to the game that would have been lost had they kept the plot pacing more rhythmic.

 

[Gametrek]

Joel was the bread and butter of the entire series. Without him it is broken.

Then further from that was the removal of her fingers bit. It is like they couldn't just write in an happy-go-lucky 80's ending where everybody is happy and the vengeful lesbian is slain, and father and adopted daughter becomes more then just that, and maybe she gives birth to a child that has the cure or wonders off back to the camp in the third game for them to extract the cure from her. Then Joel is back at square one, hanging out with his true biological son ( or daughter ).

Nobody cares about the insert LGBT ( population control hush hush ) nonsense at all. They are just creating propaganda. There is no such thing as a "trans" kid IRL. Yes there are mutations, like being born with or without. Most of these characters written in are suppose to be voting age at least from all the hub-bub about killing somebody who is pregnant. Beyond that the game is a blood-bath slaughter house that makes absolutely no sense at all. It is like "Giest" for the GCN. It is a military training simulator at some point that becomes very depressing once you get to know these characters. "Fallout 3" character building and the fact you have choices makes more sense. To save allow people to be cannibals or not? To have a town leader murder himself so you can steal his weapon.

Just oh I guess I can not play the guitar with this hand anymore.

 

[Shagger]

Joel was the bread and butter of the entire series. Without him it is broken.

Then further from that was the removal of her fingers bit. It is like they couldn't just write in an happy-go-lucky 80's ending where everybody is happy and the vengeful lesbian is slain, and father and adopted daughter becomes more then just that, and maybe she gives birth to a child that has the cure or wonders off back to the camp in the third game for them to extract the cure from her. Then Joel is back at square one, hanging out with his true biological son ( or daughter ).

Nobody cares about the insert LGBT ( population control hush hush ) nonsense at all. They are just creating propaganda. There is no such thing as a "trans" kid IRL. Yes there are mutations, like being born with or without. Most of these characters written in are suppose to be voting age at least from all the hub-bub about killing somebody who is pregnant. Beyond that the game is a blood-bath slaughter house that makes absolutely no sense at all. It is like "Giest" for the GCN. It is a military training simulator at some point that becomes very depressing once you get to know these characters. "Fallout 3" character building and the fact you have choices makes more sense. To save allow people to be cannibals or not? To have a town leader murder himself so you can steal his weapon.

Just oh I guess I can not play the guitar with this hand anymore.

Literally everything you said was wrong.

Joel was the bread and butter of the entire series. Without him it is broken...

Games moving on and changing protagonists in sequels is nothing nothing new. Joel was never the "bread and butter" of the original, it was about finding the last of humanity in the most dire of circumstance. Not the living species in a post apocalypse, nothing that literal, but about finding what was left of the spirt and soul of humanity in a world whare it's all to easy to such such value's aside. We explored that search though Joel in the original, and he was a great protagonist to do so with because of how he was lost and broken by the events in the prologue. He as much as anybody had to find the ability to love again to complete his journey with Ellie. Ultimately, that is what the story was about. hope and learning to feel for and care for other people again.

The Last of Us Part II was a very different tale. It was a tale of two woman driven to depravity and violence by hatred. It's trying to show how hatred is a powerful tool, but in the end only has the power to take things away, not give. It's not about hope and how it can construct a new future even in the worst of circumstance, it's about the destructive nature of hatred.

Just oh I guess I can not play the guitar with this hand anymore.

See? Hatred only takes in the end, that's the metaphor. Playing guitar for Ellie was a very real, physical connection she had with Joel and her memories of him, and she can't do that anymore.


That would have been a difficulty thing to pull of with Joel because he already lost everything once and we knew what happened as a result. We needed a new perspective on vengeance and hatred to give it that impact and Ellie was perfect for that. Joel's murder was the catalyst the game needed to make you understand that hatred. We were all right there with her when it happed and felt the same way and that was the exact intention.

Then further from that was the removal of her fingers bit. It is like they couldn't just write in an happy-go-lucky 80's ending where everybody is happy and the vengeful lesbian is slain, and father and adopted daughter becomes more then just that, and maybe she gives birth to a child that has the cure or wonders off back to the camp in the third game for them to extract the cure from her. Then Joel is back at square one, hanging out with his true biological son ( or daughter ).

Nobody cares about the insert LGBT ( population control hush hush ) nonsense at all. They are just creating propaganda. There is no such thing as a "trans" kid IRL. Yes there are mutations, like being born with or without. Most of these characters written in are suppose to be voting age at least from all the hub-bub about killing somebody who is pregnant. Beyond that the game is a blood-bath slaughter house that makes absolutely no sense at all. It is like "Giest" for the GCN. It is a military training simulator at some point that becomes very depressing once you get to know these characters. "Fallout 3" character building and the fact you have choices makes more sense. To save allow people to be cannibals or not? To have a town leader murder himself so you can steal his weapon.

Ultimately, the game is trying to tech us the importance learning to let go of hatred before it cost us everything. Ironic, really, because a bigot like yourself needed to heed the lesson more than the rest of us did. But as unseal with your kind, you're to ignorant and fixated on your own hang-up over the issue to see past that.

And before you even try to deny it, you are a bigot and I'm going to explain why. There was no "agenda" here, it was a social commentary, something that fiction does all the time. Whether one is aware of it or not, all fiction (or at least all fiction worth a damb) is a reflection of reality. Sometimes those reflections and subtle and buried as metaphor by a fantastical world, other times they are more literal and closer to real life, but they are always there. They need to be as our entire emotional response is structured and developed during our lives by our real worlds feelings and experiences as well as out base instincts. To provoke and emotional response to the audience, fiction has to provoke that same emotional structure. Tap into those real world feelings, memories and instincts. If something in that reflection provokes feelings of prejudice and anger in you, then that prejudice and anger you feel is not you having an issue with such things being represented in fiction, it's with such things being represented in reality. The denial and blame you place on the fiction is just your mind's way of coping because you're not ready to face up to those facts about yourself.

Because this is denial of reality in the end, it's inevitable that that your ramblings make little to no sense. It also makes since that you are so fixated on Ellie's sexuality and Lev being transgender when neither of those things are even a main focus of the story. They're just in the story, and little more.

I mean, "trans kids aren't real" and "can only be mutants" (completely nonsense)? And what was all that crap about voting age, GNC and Fallout 3? Some conspiracy about a military training simulator? I mean what the hell are you on? It's hard to even come back at your points as I barely even understand them. It's just mad, irrelevant ramblings. I'm seriously starting to get a little concerned about you.

 

[Rashid2511]

Literally everything you said was wrong.



Games moving on and changing protagonists in sequels is nothing nothing new. Joel was never the "bread and butter" of the original, it was about finding the last of humanity in the most dire of circumstance. Not the living species in a post apocalypse, nothing that literal, but about finding what was left of the spirt and soul of humanity in a world whare it's all to easy to such such value's aside. We explored that search though Joel in the original, and he was a great protagonist to do so with because of how he was lost and broken by the events in the prologue. He as much as anybody had to find the ability to love again to complete his journey with Ellie. Ultimately, that is what the story was about. hope and learning to feel for and care for other people again.

The Last of Us Part II was a very different tale. It was a tale of two woman driven to depravity and violence by hatred. It's trying to show how hatred is a powerful tool, but in the end only has the power to take things away, not give. It's not about hope and how it can construct a new future even in the worst of circumstance, it's about the destructive nature of hatred.



See? Hatred only takes in the end, that's the metaphor. Playing guitar for Ellie was a very real, physical connection she had with Joel and her memories of him, and she can't do that anymore.


That would have been a difficulty thing to pull of with Joel because he already lost everything once and we knew what happened as a result. We needed a new perspective on vengeance and hatred to give it that impact and Ellie was perfect for that. Joel's murder was the catalyst the game needed to make you understand that hatred. We were all right there with her when it happed and felt the same way and that was the exact intention.






Ultimately, the game is trying to tech us the importance learning to let go of hatred before it cost us everything. Ironic, really, because a bigot like yourself needed to heed to lesson more than the rest of us did. But as unseal with your kind, you're to ignorant and fixated on your own hang-up over the issue to see past that.

And before you even try to deny it, you are a bigot and I'm going to explain why. There was no "agenda" here, it was a social commentary, something that fiction does all the time. Whether one is aware of it or not, all fiction (or at least all fiction worth a damb) is a reflection of reality. Sometimes those reflections and subtle and buried as metaphor by a fantastical world, other times they are more literal and closer to real life, but they are always there. They need to be as our entire emotional response is structured and developed during our lives by our real worlds feelings and experiences as well as out base instincts. To provoke and emotional response to the audience, fiction has to provoke that same emotional structure. Tap into those real world feelings, memories and instincts. If something in that reflection provokes feelings of prejudice and and anger in you, then that prejudice and anger you feel is not you having an issue with such things being represented in fiction, it's with such things being represented in reality. The denial and blame you place on the fiction is just your mind's way of coping because you're not ready to face up to those facts about yourself.

Because this is denial of reality in the end, it's inevitable that that your ramblings make little to no sense. It also makes since that you are so fixated on Ellie's sexuality and Lev being transgender when neither of those things are even a main focus of the story. They're just in the story, and little more.

I mean, "trans kids aren't real" and "can only be mutants" (completely nonsense)? And what was all that crap about voting age, GNC and Fallout 3? Some conspiracy about a military training simulator? I mean what the hell are you on? It's hard to even come back at your points as I barely even understand them. It's just mad, irrelevant ramblings. I'm seriously starting to get a little concerned about you.

Are kind of researcher or repoter how can write this much
?

 

[Paul Phoenix]

SJW types always moan about this, this and this being in media. It's why things are just not as good as they were decades ago. They are probably not even fans of it anyway. They're also likely just being told what to say 90% of the time, to gain a degree of controversy, which is eye catching.

 

[Shagger]

Are kind of researcher or repoter how can write this much
?

With all due respect, why should I even answer that? I'm not on this thread to answer personal questions.

When I questioned if you were a shadow account for somebody who's already been (rightfully) banned, I had good reasons to suspect you. I asked, then I let it go. If I offended you with that, I apologize, but I'm not on trial and you have no reason to question my motives. Suspecting me just because my post would more than a few seconds to read it is, again with all due respect, baseless pretty god damb stupid.

That's why you should consider the fact I'm willing to answer your question a courtesy, don't make the mistake of thinking I owe you anything. The answer is no, I am neither a reporter nor a researcher.

With that out of the way, can we get on topic now? You can contend and criticize my points of view all you want, at least that means you paid me enough respect to actually read them. That's what I expect the next time you reply to me on this thread, if you don't mind.

SJW types always moan about this, this and this being in media. It's why things are just not as good as they were decades ago. They are probably not even fans of it anyway. They're also likely just being told what to say 90% of the time, to gain a degree of controversy, which is eye catching.

Honestly, I'm disappointed mate. I thought you were better than this.

I'm in support of diversity and inclusion in media (Within reason. I don't expect Cuba Gooding Jr to be cast as Jefferson Davis or something like that), so I assume that means I'm also just a sheep who doesn't like games and reads of a script? All this time I thought I was just a guy secure enough in my sexuality and masculinity that I could watch a show or movie or play a video game with gay and trans' characters without feeling threatened. But no, I'm just a social/political automaton programmed to piss people off and get attention.

I believed that when characters like Ellie or Lev are on the LGBTQAI+ spectrum, that had no impact on the validly of thier actions, omissions and attitude because people are meant to be valued and judged on how they behave, not on genetic traits they have no choice on. But no, being on the LGBTQAI+ spectrum makes "things just not as good as they were decades ago" just... because. No explanation needed.

And obviously you're right, inclusion in media only exists to upset people. Even though people, like myself, who are not racist or homophobic or whatever wouldn't succumb to such a reaction because they have no reason to. The only reason such a reaction would even present itself in an individual is if that individual is a bigot. Writers and creators of such media can 't possibly be responsible for that as they have no control over such reactions, but who cares about such fickle details. How selfish of ME to think that just because diversity and inclusion pissed a bigot off, that it was not meant to piss everyone off. Cleary, it WAS meant to piss everyone off just because somebody, even one person, got triggered by it. God, what a fool I've been!

 

[Paul Phoenix]

All I meant was that it is overdone and not needed to tell a story.

Look at Resident Evil, for example. Covering up Ada. Making Chief Irons a child molestor. Kendo having an Asian kid.

It's like, why? It wasn't even in the original RE2. They made all these pointless changes, and Maria in SH2 looks less like a ho for some reason, defeating the purpose of her being like Mary.

 

[Shagger]

All I meant was that it is overdone and not needed to tell a story.

Look at Resident Evil, for example. Covering up Ada. Making Chief Irons a child molestor. Kendo having an Asian kid.

It's like, why? It wasn't even in the original RE2. They made all these pointless changes, and Maria in SH2 looks less like a ho for some reason, defeating the purpose of her being like Mary.

When it's not necessary for a character to be gay/of colour as it has little to no impact on the story, why would it be necessary for the same character to be straight/white? That is precisely why your argument is so stupid. It's a non-factor, you said so yourself, so why does it matter? The only disenable difference is in the player and how they feel about it. In other words, the only source of issues and controversy in these situations is yourself.

Not liking a new design is one thing, that's fair, but turning it into a conspiracy just because you're not ready to own up to your own prejudices nor admit that, as a grown man, you're upset that there isn't enough pixelated cleavage to pander to your moronic titillation is, quite frankly, pathetic. It would actually show more maturity to admit these things.

People like you who share this horrid attitude are right about about one thing, though. As cisgender, straight white men, inclusion was never meant for us. The difference between me and you is that I'm not selfish. Inclusion may not cater to me, but I can at least put myself in the position of somebody who has been marginalised because of who they are. I can see what it would mean to somebody like that to see somebody like them being in a popular video game, movie or whatever. See, it means nothing to us, but it means something to them, so why can't you just let them have it? Why can't you just let it go? Why when you could do the easy thing and say nothing you choose to put effort into being a dick?

 

[LGM]

When it's not necessary for a character to be gay/of colour as it has little to no impact on the story, why would it be necessary for the same character to be straight/white? That is precisely why your argument is so stupid. It's a non-factor, you said so yourself, so why does it matter? The only disenable difference is in the player and how they feel about it. In other words, the only source of issues and controversy in these situations is yourself.

Not liking a new design is one thing, that's fair, but turning it into a conspiracy just because you're not ready to own up to your own prejudices nor admit that, as a grown man, you're upset that there isn't enough pixelated cleavage to pander to your moronic titillation is, quite frankly, pathetic. It would actually show more maturity to admit these things.

People like you who share this horrid attitude are right about about one thing, though. As cisgender, straight white men, inclusion was never meant for us. The difference between me and you is that I'm not selfish. Inclusion may not cater to me, but I can at least put myself in the position of somebody who has been marginalised because of who they are. I can see what it would mean to somebody like that to see somebody like them being in a popular video game, movie or whatever. See, it means nothing to us, but it means something to them, so why can't you just let them have it? Why can't you just let it go? Why when you could do the easy thing and say nothing you choose to put effort into being a dick?

Because some people have grown up never knowing anything than a popular culture that overwhelmingly reflects them and their interests, so much so that they don't even notice it.

It's like a group of people sitting in a room full of their own stench that they can't smell any more. When someone enters the room who can smell the stench opens the window to let in some fresh air they see it as an unnecessary change and an insult. They can't smell the stench, but they feel the cold fresh air and decide it was better the way it was, so they shout at the person who opened the window and get them to leave the room.
And then they sit in their stench and wonder why nobody ever visits.

 

[Gametrek]

Joel was the bread and butter of the entire series. He was to marry her and she gives birth and then walks away from the camp and sacrifice herself for the good of the world. It should have been Daddy and baby full circle.

They just killed him off to start the blah blah blah I could careless. Without Joel all you have is a clean slate without any recourse for the series to be anything but a series of stories. It is like if Wario killed Mario and then Luigi came for revenge, while taking out all the non-important NPCs related to Wario. Everybody is Meta ( does not matter ).

The game was hogwash from before. It was just a FPS with some third person and a couple of cut-scenes.
What was the lesson learned? Everybody is messed up?

 

[Shagger]

Joel was the bread and butter of the entire series. He was to marry her and she gives birth and then walks away from the camp and sacrifice herself for the good of the world. It should have been Daddy and baby full circle.

They just killed him off to start the blah blah blah I could careless. Without Joel all you have is a clean slate without any recourse for the series to be anything but a series of stories. It is like if Wario killed Mario and then Luigi came for revenge, while taking out all the non-important NPCs related to Wario. Everybody is Meta ( does not matter ).

The game was hogwash from before. It was just a FPS with some third person and a couple of cut-scenes.
What was the lesson learned? Everybody is messed up?

OK, one of us is really confused and it's not me.

First, TLOU is and always was a third person shooter, as in a shooter observed from a third person perspective, with survival and stealth elements. FPS stand stands for first person shooter, as in a shooter observed from a first person perspective. At no point in either game in TLOU series did we see a first person perceptive.

To make it absolutely clear, here is what the two perspectives look like. First, a third person shooter (The screenshot I have chosen is from Spec Ops: The Line):

And this is from a first person shooter (Example game is Call of Duty MW3)

The difference being than in from a first person perspective the player's view is literally from what the character would see from thier own eyes, whereas from a third person view the view is from the perspective of an outside party. In the case of Spec Ops: The line, it's what we refer too as an over-the-shoulder view, as if there is a camera behind the character looking over the character's shoulder. What one of those more closely resembles the perspective in TLOU (I've used two screenshots here, one from each game so you know I'm not cheating)?

TLOU Part I

TLOUY Part II

​

I know I'm being a little condescending here by describing all of this to you, but how can you expect anyone to take you're already very poorly explained points of view on these games seriously if you can't even define the genre they work in correctly?

The game was hogwash from before. It was just a third person shooter and a couple of cut-scenes.

I decided to correct your phrasing so I could focus on the other point. Both TLOU Part I and TLOU Part II were exactly the same. A third person shooter with cut scenes. So again, what the hell is your point?

What was the lesson learned? Everybody is messed up?

So you actually admit you have no understanding of the games, but you didn't need it. All you had to do was read my previous post;

it (TLOU Part I) was about finding the last of humanity in the most dire of circumstance. Not the living species in a post apocalypse, nothing that literal, but about finding what was left of the spirt and soul of humanity in a world whare it's all to easy to such such value's aside. We explored that search though Joel in the original, and he was a great protagonist to do so with because of how he was lost and broken by the events in the prologue. He as much as anybody had to find the ability to love again to complete his journey with Ellie. Ultimately, that is what the story was about. hope and learning to feel for and care for other people again.

The Last of Us Part II was a very different tale. It was a tale of two woman driven to depravity and violence by hatred. It's trying to show how hatred is a powerful tool, but in the end only has the power to take things away, not give. It's not about hope and how it can construct a new future even in the worst of circumstance, it's about the destructive nature of hatred.

Don't comment on a game thinking you're right when you know don't understand it. You don't have to like the game, but you do have to understand it.

He was to marry her and she gives birth and then walks away from the camp and sacrifice herself for the good of the world. It should have been Daddy and baby full circle.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you suggesting that Joel was meant to have a baby with Ellie? I know they are not related, Ellie is not Joel's biological daughter, but an abortive father having those kind relations with his adoptive daughter is still sick and disturbing. I need to believe that the "She" you are referring to is somebody else, but I don't know who else it could be based on the context. So please, either clarify that or get institutionalised because if you are referring to Ellie there is something seriously wrong with you.

 

[Gametrek]

When you play a videogame. You should be able to enjoy it out of the box. Inserting story is literally the way story is driven in a porno flick. It is like candy for the brain the munch on. We see one character and wonders will this be some great defining....nope they are dead. We see another character, will we see somebody give birth... nope they are dead. TLOU went from adults who had there lives together to tweens who becomes adults who lives are virtually written in and written out of existence only to extend the series. We went from "Grave of the fire-flies" and jump head first into "Lord of the flies" if it kept going for five or so years. That is nuts. The game itself is like.... blah blah "have to kill blah blah"

I do not care what the meaning is or the setting. Blazes they could stamp a bumper-sticker on this thing and call it "Half Life 3". Replace all the monsters with half-life enemies, keep all the new monsters. Have those same black guards from HL2, Make the game take-place from a third-person over the shoulder RE4/Splinter Cell perspective.
The same with "Oddworld" or "Fallout 3-NV-4" where the same struggle is taking place at the same time across hundreds of years, on a distant planet, simulation, or something else like "Portal". It is Beyond Good and Evil just less imaginative, and more retort.

 

[Shagger]

When you play a videogame. You should be able to enjoy it out of the box. Inserting story is literally the way story is driven in a porno flick. It is like candy for the brain the munch on. We see one character and wonders will this be some great defining....nope they are dead. We see another character, will we see somebody give birth... nope they are dead. TLOU went from adults who had there lives together to tweens who becomes adults who lives are virtually written in and written out of existence only to extend the series. We went from "Grave of the fire-flies" and jump head first into "Lord of the flies" if it kept going for five or so years. That is nuts. The game itself is like.... blah blah "have to kill blah blah"

I do not care what the meaning is or the setting. Blazes they could stamp a bumper-sticker on this thing and call it "Half Life 3". Replace all the monsters with half-life enemies, keep all the new monsters. Have those same black guards from HL2, Make the game take-place from a third-person over the shoulder RE4/Splinter Cell perspective.
The same with "Oddworld" or "Fallout 3-NV-4" where the same struggle is taking place at the same time across hundreds of years, on a distant planet, simulation, or something else like "Portal". It is Beyond Good and Evil just less imaginative, and more retort.

You know what, I can't do this. I'd get more sense out of a Bulldog on coke.

What is this obsession with somebody (I can't even tell who you're talking about) giving birth... or not giving birth? Why do keep on mentioning other games without any reference to tie them together with TLOU? And now we're talking about porn as well now for some reason? I don't know if you've started/stopped taking some sort of drugs, but something is clearly not right here.

And if there is anybody out there who speaks lunatic and can translate whatever this frog-box is trying to say, consider this me begging for your help.

 

[Gametrek]

Take Hollywood. They will write characters out, on or off screen. That is essentially what they did to this game. So many missed opportunities. What is the game? run around with random placed obstacles, and a bunch of stereotypes screaming?

literally "Look you will not be disappointed, outside of anything you have experienced already that is not a videogame"

 

[Shagger]

Take Hollywood. They will write characters out, on or off screen. That is essentially what they did to this game. So many missed opportunities. What is the game? run around with random placed obstacles, and a bunch of stereotypes screaming?

literally "Look you will not be disappointed, outside of anything you have experienced already that is not a videogame"

Since this is the closest thing to a coherent post that you have made on this thread, I'm going to try. To be clear, I still don't fully understand exactly your issue with the game is, so I'm go address the points here individually.

Take Hollywood. They will write characters out, on or off screen. That is essentially what they did to this game.

Maybe nobody told you, but we're talking about The Last of Us, not Barny the Dinosaur. The last of Us is a game for grown ups. From the very begining it was a tale fully of tragedy and loss. Sarah, Riley, Tess, Henry, Sam, the list goes on. It's not some happy-go-luckyk id's tale, nor is it an RPG or a choice based narrative such as Life is Strange. Like it or not, it's not the type if game whatever you choose the narrative, it's a game whare you observe it.

In this regard, both games are stutured the same way, so why did this suddenly become a problem with The Last of Us Part II? Because it was Joel that died? Sorry to burst your bubble, not you liking it does not make it a bad story nor a bad story ark.

Joel's death was built up and integrated in a very deliberate to make it shocking and upsetting, but eventually also understood. This isn't the same thing as just killing him off and not having it written properly and not make sense. You didn't like. Guess what, neither did I. Nobody did. It wasn't meant to be "liked", it was meant to be provocative. To create a reaction and emotional response from the player. I know I'm repeating myself, but this needs to be made to be made crystal clear. You not liking that choice is not the same thing as it being a bad choice nor a poorly implemented one, it just means you didn't like it. One the contrary, the reaction it got is all the proof I need that it worked exactly how the creators intended. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion, but an individual's pride doesn't mean dismiss the quality of a game.

So many missed opportunities.

What missed opportunities? Give examples, what exactly did we miss?

This is party why it's so hard to understand your points, you just present your objective and vauge opinions like there an obvious fact with no context or explanation. Stay behind your writing.

And honestly, I don't think there was that much left to to explore with Joel and Ellie. We saw so much of Joel and Ellie and how thier relation evolved and eventully deteriorated in the game as Ellie grew up into a young, independent woman. Joel lied to her not to save her, but to save himself from the pain of loosing another daughter. Of course Ellie would be pissed at him for that.

The only "missed" opportunity is that we never got to see the two fully reconcile, something you could sense was coming if the had a little more time. That adds to tragedy, and that is precisely why it written that. Once again you not liking does not make it illogical.

But let's say we did get the reconciliation, what would be next? Joel growing old to see Ellie and Dina start thier family. It's sweet, but exactly compelling, is it? In my opinion, they did the right thing killing Joel off to further this story. He would been a solid anchor to connect the play to the story and our memories of the first game, but that same anchor would also hold the story back and weigh it down.

You see what I did there? I stated what my option was then explained how I came to that conclusion. Try it.

What is the game? run around with random placed obstacles, and a bunch of stereotypes screaming?

You dumbing it down doesn't make it dumb. All it does it makes you look immature. And again, what seriotypes? And what screaming? Explain shit, please.

literally "Look you will not be disappointed, outside of anything you have experienced already that is not a videogame"

Again, no context. It's just yet another vague, objective point of view you've failed to tie into anything. It refers to nothing, so it means nothing.

I've also noticed you have sidestepped evey question I have asked. Like what is this birth you kept in refereeing too? What was with the blatant homophobia? Why did you keep refering to all those other games? Make sense and stop ducking me like a coward, please.

 

[Gametrek]

I do not have any issue with any videogame. It is playable and all, run, jump, go into menu, have a bunch of dialog that is subjectively meaningless just to pass the "idea" that we are going anywhere at all.

About "Mature content". Anything you can get off the shelves, will be censored. They call it "localization" but in reality, it has been censored enough for a five year old to pick up and play. When you see small-bodied-children playing "Call of Duty" ( a FPS like "Doom" ) or any game where you run around with guns, blood, and characters attempting to use profanity like "damn" or even the "F-word" ( nowadays ) without any consideration or inuendu involved. It is still censored. I walked into a one-bed-room apartment; little kid was playing "Mortal Kombat" and wanted to show me the fatality where you see all the guts hanging-out. Even that is acceptable. The same when you have characters in lingere, bathing suits, to literal under-garments is acceptable.

The problem we is that "I have experienced a lot more extreme stuff, in both real life and fictional wise. Like "That spoke Zasturshra". LOU is like meh that was expected.

Yeah they $#@$# up the entire point of the game. Made it a femine character, hyped up the game, with as many "ZOMGSH" and "Scandaleous" moments; so nobody could say anything was wrong with it. Typical girl-game-mentality. It is like the "Mad Max" movie with the concubines. They literally said "This game will be all that it could be" and left a cliff-hanger. No positive up-turn. This is literally how all media has been since the year 2005 ( maybe ). What was cartoonish, fun, glowing, is now grim, without hope, and lacking any respect at all. They stomped on the first game like all it was pointless to begin with, wrote in, and wrote out characters. Everybody wanted Joel to live and Ellie could have been sliced up for the sake of humanity. The message is literally "she should have died" and all those characters she went on a revenge for Joel murder-spree would have been a-okay.

I am not saying it was not playable. I am saying we wanted to see outdoorsy renaissance-man, with his adopted daughter that could possibly be more. Not lets randomly kill him, go on a revenge spree, and then have a cat knife fight. It is literally how "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison was pressured by female readers, and positivity towards Vick, rather then Blood. He out-right killed off Vick ( with a giant spider no doubt ) and replaced him with a her. Except somebody on the staff of Naughty Dog and Sony Computer Entertainment ( by this time we should understand that both companies are not lead by any original creators and is based in the west ), said "lets kill of the sis-white-male-protagonist, bring in all of these diverse people with all kinds of issues, make it a female lead, while having some sort of lesbian point of interest. It is modern Disney all over again. We can not just have a game in the post-apocolyptic world where people are trying to get along? No. We have to make them all kinds of loopy. Like loopy like serial-killers, people on drugs, and people who needs help. It is a sure-seller/collectable product. Triple-A all the way.

I know what you are saying. LOU ( or LOU2 ) is worth every penny. They pulled us in with something understandable
and normal. Everything for everyone. Then kept us hooked with garbled up nonsense. They could write up anything and it will be acceptable. You are correct.

Joel did what he had to do. Not being honest is what many parents do all the time, even spouses ( GF BF ) are not honest with each other. They will push away the world itself, to make there moment there own. Right or wrong. Like Cartman and his girlfriend.

What deteriation of there relationship? They were literally in a post apocolyptic world. All they have is each other.
You know how many times they both could have and should have died without each other ? Joel with through hell and
high-water for her. She even kept him safe in that mini-game extra, with the other girl who was clearly stereotyped.

There was no Ellie x Dina. Dina was pregnant with Jessie. Even if she was close with Ellie it did not meant anything
relationship wise at all. It was more or less a friendship mentality.

We wanted and should see have seen more of Joel, doing what he does best. Be an actual responsible character, kicking arse throughout the series itself.

You dumbing it down doesn't make it dumb.

I just flat out truth bare-bones and you know it. I never said it was "dumb". I just disassembled it, and laid out the foundation and or blue-prints.

t's just yet another vague, objective point of view you've failed to tie into anything.

They made this game so it would not be good or bad. AKA your going to play it, whether you like it or not.
Run around some 3d-scapes, see half-life creature, and have a script that leads to nowhere. Might as well purchase the comic, graphic-novel, manga, or even full on written book. Oh wait lets just watch the movie instead of this cartoon. Just like "Resident Evil", or even better yet; a television show only on the internet could bring you, as with "Fallout" Next they are going to have the player milk a goat, and fetch a pail of water.

I mean great you value the game. Maybe you even have multiple copies of the physical games itself. For me "it was a Tuesday".

 

[Shagger]

About "Mature content". Anything you can get off the shelves, will be censored. They call it "localization" but in reality, it has been censored enough for a five year old to pick up and play. When you see small-bodied-children playing "Call of Duty" ( a FPS like "Doom" ) or any game where you run around with guns, blood, and characters attempting to use profanity like "damn" or even the "F-word" ( nowadays ) without any consideration or inuendu involved. It is still censored. I walked into a one-bed-room apartment; little kid was playing "Mortal Kombat" and wanted to show me the fatality where you see all the guts hanging-out. Even that is acceptable. The same when you have characters in lingere, bathing suits, to literal under-garments is acceptable.

Now we're talking about censorship all of a sudden? Why is it so impossible for you to simply discuss one game without this stupid magic trick? Pulling a wholely unrelated conspiracy theory out of your tin foil hat!

This has nothing to do with TLOU, a game that hasn't seemed to been touched by censors much at all. Complete with all the F-Bombs and geuitous violence one could ask for. This paragraph is so far removed from the topic of this thread that you failed to even mention nor directly reference TLOU at all! Seriously, why even bring this up?

I've got a theory. Your not actually interested in discussing this game, are you? You just saw this thread as something to latch onto to peddle your mad, half baked social/political conspiracy theories, didn't you? I'm actually sure at this point you haven't even played the games at all, at least not the second one.

Well I have no interest in that, so I have officially lost all interest in you. I've already offered way more patience than you deserved over your barely legible ramblings that are ON topic, I am not going to waste my time with your OFF topic ramblings. Fuck the rest of your post. I'm not even going to read it nor anything else you post on this thread. Though I do feel sorry for genjiZERO for thier thread getting hijacked like this and apologize for my part in it, but as you can see, I'm dealing with an idiot.

 

[Gametrek]

Your so unhappy defending TLOU. The game is and overall is a generic commercial nonsense. It is like when my parents ( especially my mother ) is watching her Netflix. She just burns through it. TLOU is more or less the same thing, when my mother here's the dialog but then realizes "oh it is a videogame". Same with the White Witch PS3 RPG. "Oh it is a game, let me find something that is not a game". For our generation who would rather a videogame is to be exposed to this Hollywood "Stories" nonsense. That is what TLOU represent.

Resident Evil 1-4 made more sense. Even Wario Land 1-3 was logical and fun. What do you get with TLOU? More Resident Evil, with tons of dialog. "oh how beautiful everything is". Speaking of Hollywood the final showdown in "Cyborg" the movie, where they fought at the sea shore, while the baby is floating inside of the cell, made more sense then the LOU2, slicing her fingers off preventing her from even being able to play the guitar. I mean great symbolism.
On top of that nothing is colorful and everything is a shade of "Fall Brown".

 

[Shagger]

Bla bla bla

I don't know to make it any clearer. I don't care what you have to say. It obvious you don't know the games very well. You certainly have not played both games all the way through. You've just latched onto this thread as an excuse you peddle your buzzare conspirisies. I am not interested.

 

[Gametrek]

Listen,

TLOU is about our man Joel, they inserted bs like the hint of LGBT disguised as "girls being girls".
Even the flat-fact that we do not get to see "28-days Later" Tess transform, but instead stay behind and
allow herself to be sacrificed. Why? Because Tess would have been awesome kick-ass female protagonist. She was also a lot more cruel then Joel was. We all wanted her ( like playing Jill from RE ), but no, they had to build it up from a tween perspective. From the ages of 12-21 to get the consumer reading for drinking, smoking and waking up with a hang-over AKA to suite there target audience age-gap. If I or you had a virus of some sort, that being said we all would want to survive.

Then lets not forget how we bare witness awesomeness of a random xxx magazine. Nothing new from "Final Fantasy", or literally any Anime has not done already, More chit-chat and small talk. Oh look barack-person kills a rabbid pre-tween barack-person and just for fun he shoots himself possibly committing genocide to his race.

Being said a majority of the enemies ( human ) are greying-older-white-men or dark-skinned. We get a "Brother" ( hood ) moment, which in reality is hinting at the "Racial supremacy". Magically the sis-white-man are going to be cannibals and hydroponics engineers. Outside of Joel telling her the truth. They ( the writers ) distance her from him....for saving her and his life, because firefly was going to eliminate Joel eventually. The sis ( straight ) white ( European ) older man in the room makes one comment about the two girls playing around, and of course Joel would step in to defend the ( because it is the end of the world, and that is not his real biological daughter ) idea of LGBT, when they are fooling around during the dance. Speaking of not a big deal is when every single male/man/boy is literally killed brutally, but dark skinned people are killed off-screen.

Then the game tackles abortion, where Eli kills off a pregnant young woman, without any remorse for the life that was lost inside of her. She is literally prego and nobody could deny this fact. But I guess nobody cares at this point because they took part in the brutal murder of Joel. Again the player just killed a pregnant person with no remorse. Of course the father of Elli's friend is killed at some point and an eastern looking person ( Asian ) literally loses her limb ( like Japanese media limbless girls ).

Then the "Brooterhood" sends "Cure-girl" to get vengence for Joel. It is like if your brother says to Joel's daughter-wife "go find my brothers killer". What do we insert next at random? ...slavery...More sis-white-male, who are elderly greying dry pale men. Now we have a fight to the finish by the sea, only less dramatic ( "Cyborg 2" ), and the enemy is weaken from being crucified.

Now when "Fallout" did slavery, it was just there. There was tons of slaves. It was not a big deal. In fact prostitution was also there. You had a choice of working with the slavers, or not in "Fallout".

The bio-monsters do not matter, the infected do not matter. Nobody matters but omgsh. Slavery, Off-screen black person shot, white man get grusome death, it is cool to shoot Prego's, and being Lesbian is A-okay even if your just playing pretend.

I think covered everything about TLOU 1+2