Help me with this, I'm confused. | JoyFreak

Opinion Help me with this, I'm confused.

So I can't figure this out... Is Trump "occupying" US cities unlawfully, or was the Covid response failure NOT his responsibility? Does Trump have jurisdiction in these cities or doesn't he?
EXPLAIN THIS SHIT! YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS...
 

Meicyn

Member
The claim of occupying cities is stupid leftist crap. It’s typical sensationalism by woke morons. The actual problem is that unnamed, unidentifiable armed individuals are shoving legal American citizens into unmarked vehicles and taking them elsewhere. That is some SCARY GESTAPO SHIT and it is frightening that you don’t seem all that concerned about THAT.

Like, if the police came by and arrested me, as a citizen, I have a good understanding that the police will probably handle me just fine as I won’t resist, and I can address an unwarranted arrest through the legal system. With unidentifiable armed forces, who answers for misconduct? Who bears ultimate responsibility when something goes wrong?

That lack of having to answer for it is the point. That’s why Russia employs their “little green men” when they project force like they did in Georgia and Ukraine. They can play dumb and western powers have no real answer for it because none of the soldiers wore Russian colors. We know they did it, but we don’t have “proof” so there aren’t any legal ramifications through our existing processes.

What is your take on the United States having an unidentifiable paramilitary force with no clear chain of command that can arrest citizens? And are you comfortable with its existence beyond the Trump administration whether that ends in 2021 or 2025?
 
Unwarranted arrests happened under Bush and Obama. It was a problem under Bush, it magically wasn't under Obama, and it is now a problem again under Trump. So, I have little sympathy for the people crying now, because they only seem to cry when Republicans do it. There is also a difference between detainment and arrest.

And if I can't trust their rhetoric about occupation, how and why should I trust their rhetoric about unidentified?
 

Meicyn

Member
I’m not talking about unwarranted arrests. I’m talking about unidentifiable paramilitary forces conducting unwarranted arrests. These are two problems. If I were to make a bad analogy, it’s like the difference between murdering another via gunfire and murdering another person and then consuming them Jeffrey Dahmer style. This is not to insinuate I am okay with murder because I have levied a complaint about the cannibalism, but the way your argument is framed, both are the same. I would argue that they are not, because there is more than just the murder at play in the second case.

The conflation doesn’t seem to be limited to just that subject though, as you have thrown out the words “their rhetoric” which is interesting to me. I am focusing on the “their” part. Some leftwing feminist by the name of Michelle Goldberg publishes a dumb, sensationally titled opinion article in numerous publications about how the POTUS is occupying American cities, suddenly she represents the news media? The unmarked captors bit was reported by numerous news outlets from Fox News to MSNBC, without the occupation rhetoric. Probably because the occupation part is conjecture, not news.

By the way, why did you feel it necessary to clarify that there is a difference between arrest and detainment? Not once was detainment brought up until you suddenly did out of the blue.

And for the record since you felt it necessary to bring him up, no, it was not okay for Obama to extend the Patriot Act, and his extension of it made him a liar since he campaigned against it. I fully expect Biden, if elected, will likely do the same which would also make him just as shitty.
 
Are they unidentifiable? What evidence do you have of that? It has been said, but why do I trust what is being said? That was my point. I'm not conflating, I'm dealing with two prongs of the fork.

Who was arrested? I've heard a few people were detained and questioned, but you said arrested. Who? I mean by these supposed secret police, to be clear.

I don't know about you and where you live, but we have unmakes law enforcement vehicles here, and a secret police that does not make.

I know I said I don't trust anybody on anything in our last exchange, but I didn't realize you would take that so damn literally. Given the context, I figured the context would allow you to assume in the media, without evidence. Most people see hyperbole for what it is, and don't need to take it literally.

Insofar as bringing up Obama, I'm merely pointing out the disparity in the media. You say you opposed Obama, I doubt it, but ok. But you are not everyone, you are certainly not the media. I was merely noting that nobody was screaming their heads off about any of this under Him, but it was a problem before, and it's a problem now, but not under him.

Makes it all seem a bit political rather than principled.
 

Meicyn

Member
Are they unidentifiable? What evidence do you have of that? It has been said, but why do I trust what is being said? That was my point. I'm not conflating, I'm dealing with two prongs of the fork.

Who was arrested? I've heard a few people were detained and questioned, but you said arrested. Who? I mean by these supposed secret police, to be clear.
Evidence? Good lord man, have you taken a moment to look at any photos on the subject matter? Videos? They are all over. Men in military uniforms that are NOT in the military who have no nametapes, not answering to whom they are, and wearing cloth masks to obscure everything except their eyes. We know that they are apparently part of Customs Border Patrol and that is essentially it. Except in other cases where it’s apparently the US Marshalls. Or who knows whom else. Pretty hard to pin it down on which agency did what act, and that’s if you’re trying to apply it to a specific agency. But what if my grievance is with the individuals and not the agency? For example, I don’t want to defund the police because some of them are assholes. Most police officers are just trying to do their job. I just want the assholes held accountable. But the only way you can hold specific individuals accountable is if you can identify them!

A nameless, arguably faceless individual acting on behalf of the government who cannot be identified and therefore whose specific conduct cannot be isolated if it turns out to be misconduct is SCARY SHIT. And we are seeing it happen. If we can’t identify them, I’d wager neither can any leadership. That is a massive problem.

In this specific case they are wearing gas masks instead of cloth masks, but the point still applies. This video involves the fairly famous case of a Navy vet receiving what I would consider an unwarranted attack, made abundantly clear by the fact that once the group realized they didn’t break him like they hoped, they just stopped and he freely walked away. Apparently there was no need to arrest him?


So what recourse does this 53 year old Naval Academy graduate have? Who does he sue? Will we ever find out who that guy is that swung the baton five times? Will he ever see justice for that blatant attack? Likely not!

Here’s another video, with nonviolent protesters being attacked by unidentifiable federal agents. The video opens with some simple shoving, and escalates quickly. Watch the full video, it’s important.


Well those are just BEATINGS and not arrests you say! Fear not, I got you!


The evidence is everywhere, you have just chosen not to look.

“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command...“


Insofar as bringing up Obama, I'm merely pointing out the disparity in the media. You say you opposed Obama, I doubt it, but ok. But you are not everyone, you are certainly not the media. I was merely noting that nobody was screaming their heads off about any of this under Him, but it was a problem before, and it's a problem now, but not under him.

Makes it all seem a bit political rather than principled.
Or perhaps goldfish memory is applicable.


Oh, people most certainly raised a stink about it at the time. I selected a spread of sources including The Nation, which is well known as a far left wing publication. These are all old articles made at the time when he was President.

There’s definitely politics rather than principle at play my friend, and you are most certainly part of the former. I subscribe to the latter.
 

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